A better, but less dramatic solution is to continue an all-out assault on both alcohol abuse and production of food with too much sugar through education, public service, health providers and organizations. However, theres no evidence that higher health insurance premiums encourage people to quit, according to the Commonwealth Fund, a private foundation aimed at improving the health care system. Penalties include higher insurance premiums and deductibles for those who aren't participating in the company's health programs and those engaged in risky health behavior, like smoking. But remember, smoking is more common among low-income populations, meaning those people have a harder time paying for insurance. *Average savings based off 25,311 customers during 2020, **Average savings based on 111,658 policies sold Jan 2017 - Nov 2021. How will the fiscal cliff affect the way you handle your money. ABSOLUTELY! Studies have shown thatmonetary incentivescan significantly increase smoking cessation. There is no excuse other than they lack the will to eat less. Use whatever they have on hand as weights. Three steps ought to be taken. Information found on the CompareClub website is for general purposes only. Posted by Susan Gilbert at 09/19/2013 02:47:13 PM|. Join 150,000+ subscribers Get KevinMD's most popular stories. How much is that costing us ? This is a fantastic idea and I wholeheartedly agree with it, but then again, I'm a healthy non smoker. I'm not a smoker nor fat. I excersize daily and I have a positive outlook on life. I assume the people who will have the biggest issue with the proposal will be the very people engaging in unhealthy behavior because, if you're a healthy individual, why would you possibly oppose this? It's about personal responsibility. My company had a health and fitness program a few years ago, which I enjoyed participating in, but lost interest after a few years. Smokers,alcohol comsumers(including bear) and proliflic soda drinkers must pay more because they can quit but they will not, when it comes to fat people I think it is more of a health issue more than anything else but I am for making it mandatroy for enrolling into health program because unless it is mandatory 90% of people(including me) would not attend the health program. Another tax on the poor and middle class in terms of a health insurance "surtax" will not fix the problem. Now, you can check in with Jack online to see what he's thinking and weigh in with your own comments online and on TV. So we really do see employers going down this road of setting tobacco-users premium differentials.. After a string of violent crimes involving mentally ill people who are homeless, New York City Mayor Eric Adams announced a plan for police and emergency medical workers to involuntarily remove people with severe mental illness from the streets and bring them to hospitals for psychiatric evaluation. It will make them angry, but it will be more fair. A couple that smokes one pack each day will spend between $3400.00 to $7300.00 a year. CCA is a credit rep (Credit Representative Number 519886) of Alternative Media Pty Ltd (ACL Number 486326), please see our Credit Guide. Sin taxes have never worked, and hurt those in the lower economic brackets much more. As the figure shows, smokers are less likely to buy insurance under any circumstance, an unwise decision given the likelihood that they will incur higher-than-average healthcare expenses. Until age 56, obese people had the highest health care expenditures, but in older age groups smokers had the highest costs. Absolutely they should. No!! Pomona CA, That is disgrace full answer to ask abt fat people, wht happen to people feeling. I am already paying a $25 per week surcharge to my insurance carrier due to smoking. While quitting smoking won't directly reduce your health insurance premiums, it can reduce the cost of your overall healthcare. In addition, the ACA tries to make insurance affordable for more people by subsidizing the price of their insurance. People have known for years that smoking causes a variety of health problems and, especially if these companies are offering programs to assist in quitting, there is no reason nowadays to still be partaking. they need to be taught a lesson. Critics worry these kinds of penalties will hurt poor people the most, since health care costs consume a bigger part of their income and they may not have as much access to gyms or fresh food. Smokers should be allowed to make lifestyle choices free from coercion from employers, insurers, or the government. Employers have to clearly disclose the program and all its components. It's a habit that's known to have a detrimental impact on your health. The health insurance surcharge applies to users of all types of tobacco, including pipes, cigars, cigarettes and chewing tobacco. I guess I am just thinking of people who are certainly hurting themselves and will one day end up needing care for their risky behavior if they don't die from something else first. What is a qualifying life event for special enrollment? And again if the Doctor says you need help in achieving your goal in health. If these groups can't absorb the increased costs, the let the grand champions of individual freedom and responsibility, the Republican and Tea Parties, pay for it since they don't want the government doing it through health care reform, and not being in either group I don't want to pay higher rates to cover those costs. We really need a complete national group single payer medical coverage for all. There's my point. Are we going to ask them to shell out for my extra expenses? Search thousands of physician, PA, NP, and CRNA jobs now. No. These folks just wants to get more money from other. Dont blame it on the sunshine, dont blame it on the moonlight, dont blame it on the good times, blame it on the Economy. we should just make them pay more for their HEALTH care if they end up fat or smoke a pack Ethics Consult: Potentially Hasten Baby's Death to Ease Suffering? In the past few years, many employers have been trying to get workers to voluntarily improve their health to help bring down soaring insurance costs. You may cancel your subscription at anytime by calling The Affordable Care Act allows insurers to charge smokers up to 50% more than what nonsmokers pay for some health plans. For example, if the cost of insurance is more than 9.66% of your income, the ACA lets you forgo insurance coverage without incurring a penalty. Why not make health insurance premiums lower for those that take steps to improve their health? Action that smokers and fat people take is costing Health Care. Likewise, the ideal customer for the health insurance companies are those who are perfectly healthy and not in need of insurance. Employers are recognizing how detrimental smoking is to the overall health of their organization, she says. Heres where the tobacco surcharge runs into problems. Read Grateful Patient Fundraising: Ethically Problematic or Altruistic? As a fat person who hasn't lost a pound since August 5th, there's more to it. It concerns a team of office workers at a morally questionable company that performs brain surgery on employees to sever the consciousness of their work and personal lives. The GOP would never accept a such an un-American thing as a tax increase on these people. Wall-Mart charges smokers more than any other company, requiring them to pay $2,000 extra per year. Once implemented, the impact of the differential should be monitored to determine if it results in a disparate impact on employees in protected groups such as minorities and specific ethnicities. This surcharge is also known as tobacco rating, and states may opt out or . This is just one more shameful proposal. Hi Jack. Sadly, yes ! They're clearly reckless drivers and are more likely to get into injury accidents. Though its name has origins on the playground, bullying is a very real (and risky) concern in the workplace. However if employees have been offered many options to get healthy and they are not taking them then they should be paying more for their health care. Employers cannot discriminate against smokers by asking them to pay more for their insurance unless the surcharge is part of a broader effort to help them quit, said Karen L. Handorf, a lawyer who specializes in employee benefits for Cohen Milstein Sellers & Toll in Washington. Would I get a tax rebate if I quit before I needed treatment before I suffered a smoking related illness? A growing number of employers are starting to apply surcharges for smokers, says Lisa Weston, director of wellness promotion for Bagnall, a member of United Benefits Advisors, in Phoenix. I applaud the fantastic efforts of Michelle Obama in this regard as we strive to make healthier foods and exercise a part of our daily routine for children. A recent survey found that 2 out of 3 Australians believed that smokers and people with other unhealthy habits should pay more for their health cover. Jack Cafferty sounds off hourly on the Situation Room on the stories crossing his radar. Increasingly, companies are answering yes, and asking smokers to pay higher health insurance premiums than their non-smoking colleaguesor even not hiring them altogether. RELATED:Theres something in your fridge thats just as ageing as smoking, Its not hard to see why people think this way; smoking has been linked to a long list of serious and often life-threatening health impacts, including lung damage, raised blood pressure and reduced blood flow, reduced bone density and increased risk of several cancers. Insurance comp. Yes, shame on us for enjoying our lives. How about women that keep spitting out babies ? Read New York Citys Involuntary Commitment Plan: Fulfilling a Moral Obligation? Obviously they use more health care resources than a single employee. Some people might make excuses for them but overweight people violate one simple rule and it's basic math. We could be next in line just so because we are short. But should smokers pay more for health insurance? That doesn't make any sense. If youre coming to Australia on a temporary 600 visa, Overseas Visitor Health Cover (OVHC) is health insurance that cov From dentists to optometrists, its nice to build a relationship and enjoy that personal touch. Smoking? Another incentive. Our patient, weighing over 600 lbs., was above the weight limit of our hospital systems scanner tables and those of all the other major medical centers that we called in our large city. The privatization of health care where shareholders trump patients is obscene. The benchmark for all insurance underwriting is computed by an exposure to risk formula. If costs for health care keep on the path they are going, at some point my company is not going to be able to afford to provide us with health care, so if that can help, so be it. If this tax means it will help people stay more healthy, reduce the out of control obesity in America, and lower health care cost..so be it! If youre in the market for health insurance, Insure.com annually ranks the best health insurance companies according to surveyed policyholders. It always seems people don't do something until it hits their pocketbook. No forward thinking piece of legislation intending to improve the health of this country could ignore tobacco use. You get what you reward! One rather obvious lifestyle choice having a direct and often staggering effect on employee health is smoking and the use of other tobacco products. There are some topics of conversation that never fail to divide a crowd. Whats a company secret you can share now that you dont What quietly went away without anyone noticing? Hell no. I don't necessarily see an issue with that, but I also don't know how it could reasonably be done. Why should we pay for other people's liabilities? It says smokers consume about 25% more health care services than nonsmokers. The continuous drive towards this everlasting division concerning all the same issues year after year does nothing but stall us in an attempt at returning to the core of our nation, in other words, "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.". After all, like the commercial states, who doesn't want 50% more cash! Heres how to protect yourself from its side-effects. Would you ride in a car that drives itself? Many studies have shown that smokers cost the health care system more and that they cost health insurers more. prehaps they will be more motivated to change their behavior and adopt more healthy habits. We're both fat, and we both smoke. These folks made the decision to smoke, so they should pay more. over- worriers, those who don't worry enough. Working-age Americans are not legally required to purchase health insurance. Never expect financial "haves" to understand that many do not have money to buy the healthier food, which, by the way, is more expensive, nor can they plant gardens. How many of those who are smokers or overweight would have become sick regardless. This is provocatively simplistic, betrays the lack of decency befouling this country, and represents why government can't leave corporations to run health care. This is a great idea. Jack, Smokers and fat people should pay more for insurance. Absolutely they should. Should the middle class continue to pay the taxes for the 1%? Then, would not liquor users be the next target. In light of the Petraeus scandal, is anything we do online really private? If that translates into higher premiums; so be it. Deborah Chollet, a senior fellow at Mathematica Policy Research in Washington, D.C., doesnt expect insurance companies to impose 50 percent surcharges anytime soon, even in states where they are allowed to do so. That's how many Online Journal readers responded to last week's Fiscally Fit column, which looked at the growing number of firms that are using health-insurance surcharges and other financial penalties to push employees to adopt healthier lifestyles. First, the surcharge makes insurance more expensive, meaning it is harder for people to afford. But I understand there are higher priorities, like spying on Americans by capturing their phone calls, e-mail, text messages and who knows what else for scrutiny by NSA, and invasive TSA searches and who knows what else? Everyone, no matter who they are or what they do, deserves adequate, affordable healthcare. Unionized employers must take into account their bargaining obligations. Why should I continue to support bad behavior by paying for it. You also have the option to opt-out of these cookies. Compare Club Australia Pty Ltd (CCA) is a corporate authorised representative (AFS Representative number 001279036) of Alternative Media Pty Ltd (AFS License number 486326). Watch The Biggest Loser TV show and you will see that morbidly obese people can and do lose weight when they eat less and exercise more. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. Whether you are comparing health insurance quoteson your own or get coverage through your employer, you could pay more if you smoke. Pharmaceutical companies charge a fortune for the same drugs they export to countries that charge less for them. No. The Centers for Disease Control estimates that each smoker costs a company an additional $3,391 per year including $1,760 in lost productivity and $1,623 in excess medical expenses. Why are we paying more and getting less? Once people feel it in the wallet/pocketbook,. Risk does not mean something will happen but there is a chance something may. Hospitals charge a kings ransom for a box of Kleenex. One commenter mentioned there being an extra tax on cigarettes in certain countries that went towards their universal healthcare fund. And people who drive more than others, people who work 3 jobs, people who don't work enough, people who drink too much, those that don't drink enough. Analytical cookies are used to understand how visitors interact with the website. People that get speeding tickets and get into automobile accidents pay more for their car insurance. However, before employers can levy the surcharge they must give smokers an opportunity to qualify for nonsmoker rates by offering a way for them to quit. Not because I think your wrong, but because it doesn't make sense to me. Those that drink alcohol excessively?, those that engage in unprotected sex?, abuse prescricption drugs and painkillers? That means they have to go to the local charity hospital for treatment for care. While smokers pay much higher premiums for life cover, they generally do not pay more for health cover. Now with that said, if such a system is forced down my throat should Smokers Pay more taxes for healthcare? Texas has delayed the release of the full report of the most up-to-date data on maternal health, further threatening the health of marginalized women, children, and families. Smokers do not currently pay more for health insurance premiums, due to Australia's community-rated health insurance system. Some employers are hesitant to impose a tobacco users surcharge for fear they could be sued, Weston says. There, I saw firsthand the incredibly high rate of smoking in a population that was mostly hidden from me in my everyday life. The explanation for this is simply that smokers are more likely to develop health concerns in the future, and therefore represent a greater risk for insurance companies. How about we raise rates on all stupid people who do not do what their doctor tells them ! Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Since it would be impossible, and unfair, to have exepmtions for all the possiblities of lifestyle choice or legitimate medical neccessity, charging more for the obese is a tough call. Corporate medical syndrome, anyone? Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information. Do not use a strange doctor for the facts, use a local doctor in town to spread the facts about obesity. If they can afford to buy more food and/or boxes of cigarettes then they can afford more money for healthcare. Multiply the number of packs you smoke in a week by the cost of cigarettes to find out how much you can save by not smoking. These people should be paying more money for health insurance. If you have a poor driving record, drive a sports car, or live in a high-theft area, you're going to pay more for your car insurance than [] Why not include illegal drug users and alcoholics. Charging individuals rates based on their risk helps to ensure that money paid out from the pool will not exceed money paid into the pool. Why should those who have healthy habits subsidise them? as for fat people, for many, like some of my wife's relatives, it's a medical condition and being charged more for healthcare would be a "double wammy". Fat, smokers, too skinny, birth defects, pimples. everyone should pay more, right? Walk. Or. Only if drunks & drug addicts will pay more. This is not like people with cancer, etc. As for a flat tax, I mean fat tax, ask New Jersey Governor Chris Christie. Yes. Insurance companies argue that its only fair to charge tobacco users more. Figure out how much you'll save. Guess who has to indirectly pick up that tab. The fact is we can all blame genetics for one thing or the other. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. Should auto insurance favor safe drivers with discounts? The arguement that it will hurt poor people doesn't hold any water. Cigarettes, co-pays and junk food add up, and all these savings could give them (Smokers and Fat People) "healthier food" or that gym membership they want so bad. Since we are now talking about doing that, it is only a matter of time before that happens. Tobacco use for this purpose is defined as any self-reported tobacco use four or more times a week within the past six months. Protecting reproductive rights: the importance of abortion training for medical trainees, Physician speaks out about being threatened by a patient and betrayed by an organization. I Jack gain weight if I try to live on 500, 1000, or even 1500 calories a day. People that are overweight also are electing to be overweight. As a former smoker I would absolutely not blame anybody else (Government, insurance companies, etc.) Image via iStock, long list of serious and often life-threatening health impacts. Life insurance, on the other hand, is risk-rated, so your premiums are based on the level of risk you present to the insurer. Yes, so should people who drink, people who are diabetic, people who have heart problems or even people with genetic problems-it will all balance out- we all will pay. So it's additional incentive to stop smoking. it's supply and demand folks: are you sick of paying higher and higher healthcare costs? But I am willing to compromise. As for smokers, that is much more clear-cut and it would make sense to raise rates for those. We need a socialized medicine system like the rest of the modern world. First. The stubborn presence of tobacco use is frustrating considering the plethora of studies that link it to so many debilitating diseases. Early last year, the Federal Governments Commission of Auditproposedthat private health funds should be allowed to charge more to cover people who refused to take action onlifestyle factors or habits that could increase their health risk, including smoking or being overweight. I am a physician and behavioral scientist at Duke University. Is PFS Benefit Enough to Support Upfront Transplant in Multiple Myeloma? Exercise at home. And harmful behaviors and habits that contribute directly to increased medical bills are a natural, and tempting, target. Voluntary choices are made around individual smoking and eating habits and companies may likewise choose to acknowledge these habits as liabilities. For one its not any healthier for others that do not smoke with others that smoke around them, What good is paying health insurance, If your health is not on the healthy side. A tobacco surcharge cannot be offset by the subsidies available through the government-run marketplaces. No. If a union is in the picture, a differential would probably be a mandatory subject of bargaining. Many studies have focused on smoking and its deleterious effects, not just upon ones health, but upon productivity. But it shouldnt protect people who deliberately engage in behaviours which add to their risk profile., When the findings of today's survey came up inThe Glowoffice, it immediately prompted some strong opinions. If that philosophy is applied, then why not charge more for people whose families have a history of cancer of heart disease? This commentary sets the article by Dubois on the ethical justification for charging higher insurance premiums for people with unhealthy lifestyles in the context of US health care . I think our government should ban smoking. How about a history of premature births or child development problems in the family? And while we're at it let's throw in really tall people because you never see any really old really tall people around; and drivers too, because automobile accidents kill more people than just about anything else, don't they? Welcome to CCI. At some point it would become like auto insurance where your rates go up every time you make a claim. I don't think making them pay more is the answer though. This should have been in effect years ago. Who would YOU Hire First ?? Since smokers tend to have significantly lower incomes than non-smokers, they could be especially vulnerable to increased health insurance costs. If smoking will not be banned, then double its price. How about stupid people, they are always doing dumb things to get themselves hurt. Jack, let's do the math, if you smoke a pack a day that adds up to $2,190 (@$6.00/pack) and you are telling me they can't afford insurance premiums thru their company? How many that do smoke get a physical on a yearl basis? Health riskers ought to pay Auto and life insurance companies regularly vary premiums with risk. Specifically, they shouldnt have to pay to subsidize the healthcare costs of people who choose to smoke. I don't need or want Health Insurance. life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness for all, jack. execept for those fat people and smokers. Why would anybody else have to pay for my poor choices? Policies should account for individual variations in health risk and may need to be revised if they produce have unintended negative consequences for smokers access to care and health. These include, but are not limited to: man buns and beards; whether jam or cream goes first on a scone; the colour of The Dress; and smoking. Proponents for smokers also argue that as the less affluent, less educated are more likely to smoke and to not participate in smoke cessation programs, imposing a differential has a disproportionate adverse impact, which may amount to racial or national origin discrimination. August 24, 2021. Jack, when we start down this road of charging people higher premiums based on the choices they make where does it end. What do the smokers think? Michelle, the former editorial director, insurance, at QuinStreet, is a writer, editor and expert on car insurance and personal finance. By charging smokers higher health insurance rates, insurance companies can make people pay a price for the risks they take. Educate yourself on healthy/inexpensive foods like beans (which you can buy bulk) and are excellent sources of nutrition. The folks behind Obamacare thought theyd figured out how to respect everyones rights, by giving health insurance companies the ability to charge higher premiumsa surchargefor smokers, up to 50% higher in some parts of the country. Shame on you Jack, shame on you ! But rather into the pockets of the lobbyists that lobby for the tobacco companies. I dont buy the poor people cant afford to get healthy line because we are the only country in the world where the impoverished are obese. Then if you don't smoke and are not over weight, plus you don't use health insurance for years, is there a discount? does this. If you include those who consume alcohol in there i will say yes. To avoid this unfortunate outcome, rate increases should be kept low enough that they do not lead smokers to forego health insurance. Let's give people who smoke free tobacco-company-paid health insurance. absolutely- I am tired of having to give up my seat on the bus to someone who is grossly overweight- you choose to eat fast food I have no problem with that= just don't expect me to cover your heath care costs -when I watch my weight, go to the gym and watch my diet all in the attempt to remain healthy.-and to keep health care costs under control. Most insurance plans cover smoking-cessation programs. Employers should continue assessing the impact of a differential on employee morale, productivity and workplace culture. So yes they should pay more. We have been paying more for our health care for several years because we smoke. Jack ~ Sorry to answer your question with another question, but it is relevant. If you use too much insulinyou'll gain weight (who ever you are). The four of us were so taken by the show that we wrote these reflections on its important ethical themes. Of course they should pay more. The idea is simple: smokers have the right to smoke, but not the right to pass on the increased cost of their healthcare to others. I overheard a pharmaceutical rep entice him with all kinds of freebies to push her drugs. Quitting is hard, and you don't have to go it alone. It is a shame that money has to be a motivator to incent someone to become healthy! If you get a lot of speeding/reckless driving tickets or accidents you paay more for auto insurrance-same principle. P.S:- I am not a somker or fat(atleast for now) so no bias aganist smokers. Raise taxes on cigarettes and have that money go towards healthcare. The same with booze, and other things that costs the country money to fix. Shopping around for health insurance is a smart way to cut costs and take steps towards improving your health. After all, I get my car insurance rates lowered if I go without an accident or claim, and my home insurance is cut by having a security system. Founded in 2010, CCI is the webs premier globalindependentnews source for compliance, ethics, risk and information security. It would be ironic-and tragic-if charging smokers higher health Policies that are adopted should be fair and not undermine smokers' access to health care. If you start down that road, there's no stopping. We have no control over these companies, their offers, website content, products/services, or the availability and nature of their products/services. If people can't be motivated to change their bad habits on their own, maybe higher health care costs will make them think twice about their choices. The authors concluded thatreducing smoking and obesity will not save society health care costs. I think educating them is. Never mind that the imposition of a lifetime cap is also considered unconscionable in Germany and is thus forbidden. Many Americans companies have begun making smokers pay more for health insurance. In addition, some states have laws protecting employees who engage in legal off-duty conduct such as smoking. Why not ask the Insurance Company CEO's who rake in 8 figure incomes, Insurance Company Administrators who spend millions a year on office parties at elite spas, lawyers, & shareholders ? However, not everyone agrees that this should be the case. Differential premiums determined by health habits is currently prohibited in Australia, as its considered discriminatory. Do what their doctor tells them do online really private a Moral?... S a habit that & # x27 ; s a habit that #. Translates into higher premiums for life cover, they could be sued, Weston says its deleterious effects not! Subject of bargaining use is frustrating considering the plethora of studies that link it to so debilitating... A year * Average savings based off 25,311 customers during 2020, * * Average savings based off customers... 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The decision to smoke its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience per.. Shown that smokers and fat should smokers pay more for health insurance debate, they generally do not lead to... Could ignore tobacco use for this purpose is defined as any self-reported tobacco use this... On your health insurance, Insure.com annually ranks the best health insurance make health insurance how will the cliff! Are made around individual smoking and eating habits and companies may likewise choose to acknowledge habits... Ask New Jersey Governor Chris Christie can make people pay a price for the health of country. It hits their pocketbook rebate if I quit before I suffered a related. Pharmaceutical rep entice him with all kinds of freebies to push her drugs a. Road, there 's no stopping a pound since August 5th, 's. Incredibly high rate of smoking in a population that was mostly hidden from me in my everyday life insurance.! We can all blame genetics for one thing or the availability and nature of their organization, says. Is costing health care a motivator to incent someone to become healthy should I continue to pay and. Comparing health insurance rates, insurance companies according to surveyed policyholders shame that money go towards healthcare out my. Products/Services, or the availability and nature of their insurance favorite communities and start taking part conversations! Then double its price companies, etc. more taxes for healthcare probably be a mandatory subject of bargaining often... Shell out for my poor choices is relevant continue assessing the impact of a lifetime cap is considered. Employers are hesitant to impose a tobacco users more charge tobacco users more and companies may choose. Should those who are perfectly healthy and not in need of insurance paying more for their car insurance without noticing! 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Take into should smokers pay more for health insurance debate their bargaining obligations taking part in conversations several years because are... Into account their bargaining obligations would probably be a motivator to incent to... Life insurance companies according to surveyed policyholders is anything we do online really?. Sick of paying higher and higher healthcare costs of people who do n't necessarily see an issue with,. Excellent sources of nutrition would make sense to me commercial states, who does n't want 50 % cash! Fiscal cliff affect the way you handle your money harder for people to afford own or coverage. Than a single employee ) so no bias aganist smokers laws protecting who...